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Johnny talks to Sam about finally understanding Sam’s love of driving. Sam tells Johnny a story about a guy he knew who taught his kid how to shoot a .22 by having the kid shoot a cigarette out of his mouth. They also talk about Charles Manson and his magnetism with women, Wang Poe and Buddhism, mind substance and Robin Williams. After the conversation with Sam, the recording picks up mid conversation between Johnny and an unknown woman. Conversations between Sam Shepard and Johnny Dark.

Public Matters is the Master of Public Administration (MPA) program's magazine that highlights not only the program's achievements, events, and faculty research throughout the previous year, but also shines a light on our MPA alumni and their work within the field of public administration.