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Sam and Johnny talk about rugged individualism, luck and circumstances as factors of success and achievement. They try to define rugged and come to the conclusion that it is a false concept. They also briefly talk about the movie “The Right Stuff” and various things about it. Conversations between Sam Shepard and Johnny Dark.

Sam and Johnny continue their discussion on rugged individualism, what the rugged individual would posses as far as material things, knowing whether you have ruggedness or not and having the “right stuff”. They also make a list of people throughout history who have had the “right stuff”. Sam also discusses filming The Right Stuff and how hard it was to film yet everyone worked as a team and how writing letters are a more personal way of communication. Conversations between Sam Shepard and Johnny Dark.

Sam and Johnny talk about a New York Times article about Afghanistan and the Taliban. They also talk about the story of Mohammad and Islam. During their conversation, Sam tells Johnny of the Bohemian Sausage Festival and Johnny reminisces about going to a gun show after meeting up with Sam in Iowa. They also talk about the reactions of people after September 11, 2001 and what to expect in the coming days and the crusades during the middle ages. Sam also talks about writing about his father throughout his life. Conversations between Sam Shepard and Johnny Dark.